You know what I'm getting tired of? Emails from people trying to prove to me that I should hate Arabs because they are making my gasoline prices so stinking high. Quit sending me this American Supremacist propaganda people! Here's a quick rundown of how the emails go. I get multiple pictures of lavish Arabs mansions, Silver-clad cars, or even billion dollar investments like indoor ski lodges. Then they say, "no wonder gas is $3.00 a gallon over here." As if to say because these sheiks are living excessively I should wage war against the entire Muslim nation.
You want to know why our gas prices are so stinking high? Its because moms and dads of this country are too busy skirting little Trevor and Brittany to the 3rd Baseball practice this week, Gymnastics on Tuesday and Flute on Wednesday, Soccer on Friday nights, and Karate on Saturday mornings, oh did I mention that the baseball practice was not the county league it was the traveling team that plays when the school league is out. Somehow we have agreed to bow at the alters of Motion and Speed at the expense of our families, sanity, pocket book, and I dare say... souls. When this country decides that staying home for longer than a TV Dinner and 1/2 a night's sleep is more important than puffing up our kids with unrealistic dreams and aspirations, then we might see a change. When absolutely nothing but astronomical gas prices will slow us down as families, we have a problem!
Don't blame the Arabs for being good at making money. Besides I've seen this thing pictured below, and if they ever put one in Dallas, guess what. I'm going to load my brand-new, gas-guzzling, Man Van down with my oversized family and drive really fast through stop and go traffic just to visit it. Oh and I'll probably have to bring my other vehicle as well because all our gear just won't fit into one.
Vroom...Vroom!
DISCLAIMER:
I wish to extend my apologies for anyone offended because you named your child Trevor or Brittany... I'm sure he/she is a very, well-mannered, Black-Belt Right fielder.
52 comments:
wow. i bet those people that sent you those emails would like their heads back.
ps i cant see the pics...
i seriously laughed out loud for like five minutes after reading your disclaimer.
Way to show intolerance to active families. So, you advocate us staying home. How about Sunday morning and Wednesday nights? I could save some gas on those days easily.
Lumbearstang... I'm not sure what you're wanting in a reply to your comment. However, I'm afraid we might have two different views on many things. First off, I am not advocating staying home simply for the sake of saving money. Secondly, I never issued a decree urging families to stay home. I simply illustrated a very real disturbance in our families today. We go, go, go and go some more until something slows us down. Sadly not much slows us down anymore except the power of the almighty dollar.
In addition, you bring up an interesting point which I think we again do not see eye to eye. I do not compartmentalize my faith in terms of days. I see Sunday as no more religious or righteous than Tuesdays. I do not elevate Wednesdays over Thursday, etc. So I'm not sure what you were trying to suggest by saying you can stay home Sunday's and Wednesdays... it sounds like you were saying that if you'd stay home on those days you would be sticking it to the church somehow with your absence. I could be way off here but if that is in fact what you were saying then I would say to you grab a popcorn and Diet Coke and enjoy yourself. The "Church" does not 'win' so to speak when you (or anybody else for that matter) shows up. Therefore the church is not defeated when you (or they) do not show up. We have enough people already who only love God on Sundays and Wednesdays. If that is you then I would suspect that come Sundays and Wednesdays you (and possibly your kids) are bored out of your mind at church). You should probably find another hobby to invest your time into.
I hear this position a lot as a Youth Pastor. It usually comes down to the parent arguing on behalf of the student as to why they can not be involved in anything because they (the student) is so busy with sports, advanced classes, and a whole host of other activities. It is like they are arguing toward some unseen energy that is forcing them to be involved in a myriad of these events. Its almost as if they have no say in the matter. However, what I want them (the parent) to realize is that they are the parent! How have we forgotten the influence of that word? Why must our children start trying out for High School Sports in the 3rd grade? Is it so they can be as good as everyone else (because that doesn't work). Is it so they can get an edge on the other kids (that works all the time right?) Or is it because we as parents have forgotten what our most important role as parents is... How many times do parents abdicate teaching their own kids by letting someone else do the hard work? My kid can't hit a ball, well apparently only the baseball coach can teach him, my kid can't play the oboe... apparently only the county symphony can teach them, or my kid doesn't know anything about God... let's let the youth pastor teach him. I digress.
I'm not mad at you Lumbearstang... I just think we view the world in two very different ways. And I'm ok with that.
Oh dear, my staying home wouldn't matter one bit to my church. I know that. Everyone knows that. And, I'm not mad at you, but as a blogger, you have to realize not everyone will agree with your opinions.
Your your blog implied you don't think parents who "go,go,go" know what's best for their children. You seem to have the answers for those parents, which is to not "go, go, go" until gas prices keep your car in the garage. Ultimately, I think it comes down to this. You raise your kids the way you think is best. I'll raise my kids the way I think is best. And, let's hope both are happy in life.
Is the root of your rant that you are tired of the Arab e-mail (which I have never seen or sent), or that you are tired of being turned down by parents with kids active in many different things?
Do you think kids with parents that let them play baseball, soccer, karate, etc grow up better or worse off than kids with parents who don't give a crap what their kids do?
Let me process this a little Lumbearstang... I'll get back to you soon.
BTW... interesting name! Lumberjack? Bearkat? Mustang?
Lumbearstang, I wish I had a clue who you were but if you prefer to remain incognito that is fine with me... my stance will be the same regardless. First off, I'm sorry you attend a church who does not care if you are there or not. I would be curious as to how you came about this assessment?
Your request that implies "You raise your kids the way you think is best. I'll raise my kids the way I think is best. And, let's hope both are happy in life" is ironic to me. Because this philosophy does not apply to any other belief systems. I mean what if I wanted to raise my kids as terrorists whose only purpose in life was to destroy human lives... would that be ok? Of course not, because we all have to agree that there are boundaries. So I think your logic is faulty there. Secondly, for me to agree to such a system would be for me to negate the very calling I have answered from God. My desire (as well as my calling) is to equip believers to do the ministry (Eph 4:12). Now if you know anything about the Old Testament you probably remember Moses. Remember when the Israelites were about to cross over into the Promised Land? Moses stood up and basically said, "Look, here are some things you need to know..." Those things they/we needed to know make up a pretty good chunk of the Bible. Now what if all the people would have said, "Listen Moses, you follow God the way you think is best, and we'll follow God the way we think is best and we'll see whose happier in life."? If you read the bigger picture you learn that that is exactly what they did time and time again and guess what... every time they were wrong. Why? Because God works on a scale greater than trial and error.
Back to the purpose of the rant... the reason our gas prices are so high is because we have not slowed down. This is not simply limited to our kids (but it is probably a larger ratio than say grocery store trips or something). It's simple economics. The more we as Americans go, go, go... the more gas we need. The more gas we need, the more demand we put on the gas industry. The more demand the less supply, we know the drill right. Are the gas companies making a killing, You better believe it. However, it is because of US that they are making a killing.
How the whole parenting thing fits into it is this... As long as parents are slaves to the activities our kids are involved in the more demand we place on markets such as gasoline. By 'slaves' I mean this, activities are the controllers of us. We go when they say go, we buy what they say buy, we jump when they say jump. Is baseball evil... no way. Is ballet from the devil... no, only the shoes! Is playing an instrument going to negatively scar your kid... of course not. However, when we as parents place more emphasis on these things than what is ultimately important then we do have a major problem. And these are not my words either... go back and read what Moses taught the people to do... And I kind of see that as my purpose, to remind people of what is ultimately important.
I'm a parent too. I know it's a hard balance of wanting your kids to be all star athletes while keeping them grounded mentally. I understand the desire to want to do anything to see my kids succeed. I really do. I've taken my kids to dance class and swimming class and even a 'duct taping class' in a few weeks whatever that is. However, there comes a time when I have to look my kids in the face and say "I know what's best for you right now, and I also know what's best for this family, so I'm sorry you can't do that." If parents allowed their kids to do every single activity they wanted to do then we'd have chaos on our hands. And I'm afraid that in many families today that is what we have... chaos.
My logic is faulty, and to prove it, you quote a story from the Bible? That pretty much ends the debate right there. Well done, sir.
Sorry, I' do not understand your last comment.
However, I do ask that if you wish to continue this conversation please reveal your identity to me instead of hiding behind a coded name. My email address is robertlconn@gmail.com (however something tells me you probably already have that).
Well, guys...this has been quite a fun read.
I gotta' say, though, that I'm a bit confused by the "faulty logic/Bible story" quote too, Lumbearstang.
I hate to ever post that I don't understand something, but since I'm super handsome and extra muscle-dy, I think it's okay for me to be humble every once in awhile.
Is "lumbearstang" my mom? Because you are not making since. My mom does not either.
Robert--
great post. I couldn't agree more, especially with the "go go go" thing. the American culture is absolutely enslaved to activity. Worse than that, american parents are quite often enslaved to the whims and wants of their kids in unhealthy ways.
Anyway, sorry i missed all the fun. If lumberstank every comes back, I'd love to engage him/her a little more.
My name is Jessie. I go to Lufkin's First Baptist Church. I am a big fan of Clay Walker, and found this site via his blog. Lumbearstang is very close to what Mr. Conn suggested it was, with the exception of the "Bearkat" part. He's a little long on that one--think Waco. I am not Shelly's mom.
If you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God--as I'm sure most that visit this site do--then you will never understand my faulty logic/bible quote comment. You believe that logic exists because God exists. That he created logic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. I am one of the few physicists that believe this, too.
However, as a scientist, I question everything. If you say I have faulty logic, which certainly may be the case, I'd prefer that you give me absolute facts to back that up--not suggesting that either I or you might be raising our kids as terrorists, which is illegal, or providing me with a quote from a man who wrote his own autobiography.
Lumberstank! That's a good one. I keep finding so much tolerance on these Youth Ministers' blog sites.
Lumberstang... I shall henceforth refer to you as LBS because I am not that good at typing and all those letters wear me out.
LBS, thank you for honest unveiling... Listen, it is apparent that I can not presuppose we have the same Biblical worldview. And that is fine. However, here is my problem with your view. You say the Bible is not an absolute fact. The reason is because you do not believe in it. If you did, you would by default (and not to mention being logically bound) have to accept it as fact. The Bible (by its very own definition) must be fact or fiction. It leaves no room for middle ground. So since you've taken away my #1 absolute fact so to speak, my question is what then is your #1 fact? Science? Philosophy? The Arts? what? You said raising our kids to be terrorists was illegal. Where do you get that from? Who said that was the law? Did you create that law? Have you ever seen that law written down? Did you learn it in driver's ed? How did you cpme by the attitude that raising your kids to be terrorists was illegal? Could it be that some kind of right & wrong moral rule is in effect? And If so, where did it come from? Government, MTV, God, who, or what, or where.
As a man who 'questions everything' you (by your very own definition) must also question everything about your own life. If you're married, do you really love your wife? If you have kids, can you really know they love you, etc. Questioning everything does not make a person smart, or educated, or cultured, or intellectually bound, or anything else. Questioning everything makes a man lost. Not necessarily 'lost' in terms of salvation, but rather lost as in they have no 'home' to rest in. If nothing is absolute (which is in fact an absolute statement) and we can't really know anything for certain (are you sure about that?) then you're right... I'll never understand you and you likewise will never understand me.
Since you've stripped me of my main tool then I guess I'll have to show you logically. There are 4 main options to this scenario. A) The Bible is True B) The Bible is False, C) The Bible is both True and False and D) The Bible is neither True nor False.
We can rule out C & D rather quickly. The Bible can not be both true and false (we both agree on that I think). In addition, neither can it be 'untrue' and 'unfalse' at the same time (humor my nomenclature). Therefore it is either A or B. If the answer is B then you and I both are still ok because if the Bible is not true then the outcome of not believing it is also not true, no harm no foul. However, if the answer is A then you (not I) are in trouble because that means the outcome of not believing it is also, you guessed it, true.
As I see it, you're really the only one with anything to lose.
Which version of the Bible can not be both true and false? The King James Version? the NIV? Earlier versions than the KJV? Perhaps Sanger's FBC has the one true interpretation. Surely you admit there could be errors in translation or errors of omission Or, perhaps you do believe in unicorns (Numbers 23:22) and dragons (Deuteronomy 32:33). Or, perhaps you prefer wild oxen and serpents?
And just how long did those 6 days really last?
BTW: Telling someone what they believe when you don't really know them and that they are "lost" is so...Baptist. The next thing I know there will be a "Committee on how to Save LumBearStang's Soul."
Jessie, you're right I don't know you. But I do know that I don't hate you, I don't think you're clueless, or even think less of you than anyone else. In fact I applaud your wholehearted candidness and for your comments to this blog site. Its good to know that all the readers of this thing don't think exactly like me... that would be boring. So for that kudos!
However, you're words strike me as odd. To answer your questions I don't like the KJV personally, I use the NIV quite a bit, but prefer some other versions. I'm not the guy that says one "this or that" version is accurate. Personally that guy annoys me. In addition I don't care about unicorns because I do not base my life on the existence of a horned horse. I do believe in dragons.
As far as the 6 days are concerned... Several theories about how God created the universe have been studied. These include the gap theory, the flood theory, the ideal-time theory, the age-day theory, and the pictorial-day theory. Likewise two main theories exist regarding the development of created life after the creation of the universe took place. These two theories include “theistic evolution” and “progressive creationism.” Personally, my stance is that the age-day theory seems the most probable. This is based off of interpretation of Scripture (which one would have to hold Scripture as being relevant...) but assuming, this, it makes the most sense. The other theories pose too many problems for me. As far as development of creation is concerned, “progressive creationism” makes more sense than “theistic evolution”. Theistic evolution sounds too much like Deism in that God would start something so perfectly and then step away to see how it all falls apart.
I apologize for assuming you were 'lost.' You're right that was out of line having not met you. Sorry to generalize.
You're at a great church with a great staff. So please keep going and listening to them... they really know their stuff.
Oh, and amen to the Committee comment! That's all we need is another committee.
Note to self....
"Todd, do not take Robert on the next FBC Lufkin gig."
I am not a young Earth creationist. I agree with you that the age-day theory seems the most probable. I just find it interesting that not a single major English translation of the Bible has yet to replace the Genesis "day" with the word "epoch" or something similar. Do we do a disservice to our youth teaching them the universe and all life was created in six days when they will find out later that it took place over billions of years?
This has certainly gone off-topic, which was appropriately titled an "uncalled-for rant." I'd hope that you didn't hate me Mr. Conn because of my silly and "odd" words. And, I'd be happy to meet both of you on your next FBC Lufkin gig.
In the meantime, "go,go,go"...or not.
Lumbearstang--
please accept my apologies for the lumberstank" crack. Seriously. That probably wasn't the best way for me to insert myself into the conversation. I was just messing around, but that's no excuse. in my defense, you have to admit that you didn't exactly pick a name that was easy to spell, pronounce, or remember. and, after a decent amount of sarcasm on your part, i figured it was safe to make jokes.
Like i said, my bad. And i hope you can hear me, now, with a clean slate. i've got a few thoughts...
first, i think it's really great that this discussion has remained civil and peaceful, and i applaud everyone for, as far as i can tell, participating in that spirit. more of that needs to happen. i would guess that "civil and peaceful" debate is a far better venue for learning and internal change than "ticked off and yelling" is.
however, i do think it's only fair to point out a couple of things.
Jessie (can i call you Jessie now?), you referenced tolerance/intolerance more than once in your responses, and you also went to great lengths to express your disappointment with assumptions/generalizations (when robert assumed you were "lost," for example). It's good and right for you to call out people who are behaving in those ways. Robert probably meant no harm, but I suspect that your correction to him was instructive and helpful.
in that spirit and to that end, it's only proper that i tell you that sarcastic comments (like the one that i made and have apologized for) such as "way to show tolerance" and "well done sir" and "perhaps you believe in unicorns and dragons" aren't helpful. they sound condescending and snarky to those who are on the receiving end, and they only contribute to an already unpleasant communication environment.
(again, i'm not saying you're the worst offender in this area; i'm only suggesting that you can't cry "intolerance!" when you're being a mean-spirited smart-mouth. i should know.)
As for generalizations/assumptions, i could go on for days recounting how several of us have offended one another in that area. But suffice it to say that "that is so baptist" ain't helpful, nor is this little bit of talk:
"If you believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God--as I'm sure most that visit this site do--then you will never understand my faulty logic/bible quote comment."
Telling Robert that he'll never understand you only isolates him from you, and that won't result in any kind of growth/change among us. if you've given up hope of being understood, and/or if you don't believe he can change, why would you come to his site and make antagonistic and/or corrective comments? Just think about it.
And telling the rest of us who come here what you're "sure" that we believe is "unfair generalization" of the highest order.
Just to help you understand what i'm saying, here's one more: you can't get mad about generalizations aimed at you when you make sweeping jokes about "these youth minister's sites." Am i making any sense? You can't lump Robert in with other "youth ministers who have blogs," and just be done and satisfied.
Listen, i'm not trying to zing you or get some kind of fight going. I just think everybody ought to be held to the same standard. And i just want "debates" to result in change and growth, when possible. You may not agree with my specific points, but i hope you'd agree with that general goal.
Again, my communication style is, admittedly, not the best in this area. Perhaps that's why my antenna is tuned so specifically to this frequency.
If any of this is offensive or off, please forgive me, and feel free to point it out. I'm not ticked off or looking for a fight, and i'm certainly not above being wrong.
peace--
ross
Who would have thought that a post about gas prices would end up sounding like a Systematic Theology class. I guess that is what happens when God is in each and every detail of our lives.
Thanks to all of you for the comments... Kaity, Kris, Shelly, Todd, Ross, and especially Lumbearstang (who definitely wins the contest for the most creative name)!
Im not going to lie. I have become addicted to checking your blog to read the conversations. I find the conversation to be very... interesting.
oh and kudos to Ross. much agreed.
THIS POST IS SO AWESOME!
When this country decides that staying home for longer than a TV Dinner and 1/2 a night's sleep is more important than puffing up our kids with unrealistic dreams and aspirations, then we might see a change.
Why not take a look at your above statement and realize that some parents may want their kids involved in these sports to make new friends. Maybe even grow up with some close friends so as to not be "Cut-Up" once they get into middle and high school and begin to think they actually have no chance of "Hanging" with any crowd. Then they could be labeled as a "Bad Kid" that everyone avoids and they ultimately end up on dope and in prison.
Yet, why not recognize the parent who takes the time with the child to attend these events and heap praise upon them for not just going home after work and completely ignoring them as so many parents do.
Here is a shocker. I want my kids to experience defeat. I also want my kids to have goals that may seem unrealistic to you. Is it better for them to experience being beaten, or to be told that they won't be able to compmete because they don't have a natural talent and there is no point. Kinda makes me glad Roger Clemen's mother never told him "you aren't really that good and I just don't see why you keep throwing that ball!"
To follow the "Status Quo" when it comes to goals and aspirations seems to equal that of just being liberal minded or worldly for that matter. Typical of most who choose to "SIT" while others work two jobs in order to help feed them.
'Oldfart', I think you are missing Robert's point. He is not advocating not setting goals for children or not allowing them to experience both victory and defeat. He is definitely not proposing isolating children from other children thereby causing social problems later on.
What he is saying, Robert correct me if I am wrong, is that for two decades now parents have had the attitude that Robert ranted against, and it has led to more harm in the development of children, parents, and families than good. There is a middle ground to activity and rest, and Americans have no clue what that looks like. It's not about becoming a hermit, but it also shouldn't be about buying into this notion that if our kids aren't involved in a wide spectrum of activities that we are somehow short-changing them.
Can a parent spend time 'with' their child while the child is at practice four times a week? Maybe but how much of that will be spent in meaningful sharing in each others lives? How much time spent at home is spent with the television off with the whole family in one room actually talking about meaningful, lasting things?
It's about the deterioration of the family and what it means to spend time with one another. We have to focus on what lasts, what matters most.
For 99% of children, litle league won't last. Ballet won't last. The things we have been taught to value as Americans will not last.
That's the point of Robert's rant.
Bobby--
thanks for handling that one. I was too tired.
Are multiple youth-pastor-led trips included or excluded from Mr. Conn's "don't go, go, go" mandate?
Lumbearstang,
I'm not sure I follow.
Yes Bobby, thanks for taking care of me. ??? What was that?
"Bobby, will you lead this one to the Lord? I am just exhausted!"
Is that how things are taken care of?
There is a middle ground to activity and rest, and Americans have no clue what that looks like.
Upon what authority or writings have you studied that helped you to come to this statement?
How much time spent at home is spent with the television off with the whole family in one room actually talking about meaningful, lasting things?
The last time I looked, this took place at the "Supper Table". A place I look forward to every day. Yes, the TV is off.
The things we have been taught to value as Americans will not last.
What "things" are you talking about? Family Time?
Please Clear this up. If you are not too tired that is.
Seriously laughing at where this has come...
OK, OK, OK... Why don't we just do what LBS originally suggested and all raise our kids according to how we think is best and hope they all end up happy in life... Because ending up happy is what life is ALL about right? Especially when you don't hold the Bible in any authority.
Oh wait, that's intolerant of me isn't it? Sometimes I just can't tolerate my own intolerance.
No, that's sarcasm, something of which I'm quite familiar. I have plenty of friends that are happy in life and never crack open their Bibles. Wouldn't believe a word of it if they did. They probably won't be happy in death.
I'm not claiming to be an expert on anything. However, I am speaking from my experience as a product of the so-called average American family who carted me and my siblings around to all sorts of practices growing up. We hardly spent anytime together where the focus of the time was the family or even something greater. We ate dinner at the table every night, and it never changed anything because we were never focused on anything bigger than ourselves or circumstances.
In addition to that I've spent almsot a decade of my life ministering to students and families that look just like mine or worse. The vast majority of those hundreds of families look terrifyingly similar.
Do I have vast amounts of research data showing this reality? Not on hand, but I am sure organizations like the Barna Group and Center for Parent and Youth Understanding do. If that isn't convincing enough, just take a walk through the hallways of any school or the food courts of any mall. You'll see those statistics with flesh on.
Finally, and most importantly, 'Oldfart', I am not trying to convert you. I don't know you and therefore can't possibly know anything about your life or faith. However, and I absolutely mean this with all the sincerity in me, if you are not a follower of Jesus Christ, I would love to have any conversation with you about it that you are willing to engage in. You can email me at bobby_cates@hotmail.com if you would like.
We may disagree on all kinds of things, but none of that is as important as whether someone is saved or not.
I've enjoyed the conversation.
THIS POST IS SO AWESOME!
33 posts before we got an altar call? I would have put the over-under somewhere around 10 myself.
Just imagine if I posted about something really controversial... I might get 50-60 comments.
Lumbearstang, I am not sure why my willingness to talk to someone about Jesus Christ is an altar call. I am just thinking about something a little bigger than trying to win a debate on a blog.
I haven't made any tearful pleas. There haven't been 33 verses of 'The Old Rugged Cross' playing in the background. I am not asking the masses to walk any kind aisle. I simply invited someone else to have a conversation about Jesus Christ. He/she is free to decline or accept. Either way, it was an offer I am honored and obligated to make.
It sounds like you are taking shots at that attempt. If that's not accurate, please correct me. If you are just poking fun, I humbly ask why.
You may scoff at this too, but I, along with most of the other guys on know who have contributed to this thread, actually care about the people who get involved in discussions. These blogs are tools we use to actually try impact lives that we would normally have no contact with. I care whether you or Oldfart or anyone else is saved through faith in Jesus Christ.
These blogs are tools we use to actually try impact lives that we would normally have no contact with.
There may be some truth to that. After all, I don't know you. You don't know me.
However, I also know from personal experience that blogs allow folks to stroke their own egos. We can't wait for a comment on something we write. Look at Mr. Conn, he's boasting about his possibility of getting 50-60 comments had he written on a "controversial" topic. His mind is already racing toward the next post.
Since Robert is in fact one of my closest friends, I know for a fact that he doesn't use his blog to stroke his own ego. He uses it primarily to keep in touch with friends who live on the other side of the state or the country. He's also a guy who is willing to take a contemplative look at everything in his life for the sake of being a better husband, father, and follower of Christ.
I know his comment about getting 50 or 60 comments was 100% facetious.
While I like blogging, I think it is perhaps one of the most ineffective methods of discussion and debate given the fact that we are just reading words. All of the other verbal and non-verbal cues essential to effective communication are lost. Jokes come across as shots. Questions come across as attacks. Sincere attempts to invest in someone's life comes across as a cheap traveling evangelist trick.
While I like blogging, I think it is perhaps one of the most ineffective methods of discussion and debate given the fact that we are just reading words. All of the other verbal and non-verbal cues essential to effective communication are lost. Jokes come across as shots. Questions come across as attacks. Sincere attempts to invest in someone's life comes across as a cheap traveling evangelist trick.
You found something we can completely agree on.
That's 40. Only 10-20 more to go.
Well, let me try and get us closer to the mark. This should count as 41 or 42 or something like that.:)
It seems as though my salvation is in question. Dangerous ground you are treading on there Bobby. I am unsure why you feel the obligation to evangelize me. I am happy that you are honored however.
I don't recall God calling down to me as of late, but if HE does, you all will be the first to hear of it.
Actually, "Oldfart", I specifically said in my comment from Feb. 8 at 8:39 pm that I am not trying to convert you because I know nothing of your spiritual state. I merely offered an open line of communication IF you were not a follower of Jesus Christ.
I am sorry if it came across as a questioning of your salvation. I did what I could in this format to make it clear that I was not trying to do that. However, I am not sorry for making the offer because it was a genuine one.
Again, sorry for any miscommunication on my part.
Bobby, maybe the word "Dangerous" was not the right word. Let me replace it with "peculiar."
I am sorry that you feel the need to apologize. You have not miscommunicated. You were correct in regard to "this format." I can certainly see how it could be difficult to convey what you feel through a keyboard.
From hence forth, my salvation issue would most likely be better off left up to God. Thank you for your concern however. And just so you know, I know very well who my Savior is.
You know we could all probably learn a lot from what Bobby is attempting to do... So while some are trying to devalue his genuine concern, I applaud you Bobby for trying to bring some clarity to this massively-misunderstood situation.
Lumbearstang & Oldfart, there is a vast difference between hovering over other's blog sites and overseeing your own. You see what Bobby, Todd, Ross, and the others understand is that to be vulnerable you have to open yourself up to others. So one way we do this is by having our own blogs. This is an avenue we use to post things that are (i) exciting to us, (ii) intriguing to us, (iii) things we want the world to be aware of, (iii) personal journeys that loved ones may appreciate, and (iv) often times promote our own soapbox ideas, beliefs, values, and convictions. But you see that is the beauty about blogs. When we put this stuff out there, we are therefore inviting anyone who will, to question and comment. WE KNOW THIS… and yet we do it anyway. We’re not ever admitting we are the final say on any topic. What we do not do, however, is prey on unsuspecting bloggers with an anonymous or even dead-end blog sites of our own and fire disapproving sniper rounds into the stories that others have dared to share.
Why do you not have your own blogs? If you do then why must you comment anonymously? Have you not the conviction enough to stand behind what you so cleverly leave for us all? It is an easy thing to view the world from a height and discern what all is wrong with it, it is a much harder thing to do to live on the streets and open your souls to the world.
I find it interesting that here are two guys who claim to be Christian (Christ followers or whatever you want to call it), yet one does not believe the Bible is inerrant, inspired, infallible, or any other word that begins with “I”. The other prefers that his religion be only between him and God. If you’re asking me if I see anything wrong with that then your answer is “Yes, I see a lot wrong with that.” First off, you cannot separate the word of God from a relationship with God. It just isn’t possible. It’s like saying you love your wife but also saying you hate being married to her. The two go hand in hand (not because I say so, but because the two are actually one). Secondly, a personal relationship with Christ is anything but ‘personal.’ The most important thing Christ modeled and told us to do is to Love God and Love Others. The two are, once again, actually one… there’s no divorcing the two ideas! Now loving others is not simply having compassion on people, or saying nice things on their blog sites. Loving others is also allowing them to love you back and not telling them things like “You do it your way and I’ll do it mine” or “Only God can tell me I’m wrong” Loving others is getting your hands dirty in your friend’s lives and allowing them to get their hands dirty in your own.
You guys seem very anti organized religion (especially you LBS). I don’t know you however I have met 1000 of you before. You tout “Yay Jesus” and then whisper ‘Boo church.’ That simply does not cut it. You cannot love Jesus and hate his church. The church is his bride… It is never a good thing to knock on another man’s wife. [Why do you say we’re anti-religion, Robert? You don’t know us…] I sense this mainly because of the snide comments we keep hearing from your posts. You’re making fun of our staff positions, ministry formats, practices, and values. You call us intolerant… well I say you model it to perfection. I will add that I am the only ‘youth pastor’ in this string of comments since you seem to think that we’re all just a bunch of whining youth pastors. You see part of the problem is that everyone in this thing IS serving on staff somewhere. However I do find it interesting that within this bunch you have (1) a Youth Pastor (2) Pastors and (1) Music/Pastor who have all come to the same conclusion. Please don’t assume I am saying that we are more important than you guys or that your jobs are less meaningful… I am totally not saying that. I am saying that you guys are arguing with 4 pretty knowledgeable guys on a topic that can be extremely difficult. To brush off anything we have to say might not be the best route to take.
What I am trying to say is comment all you want and please do, (my ego will gain major points if I can hit 50 comments inside of one week… ah there’s more of that sarcasm). Seriously, please continue to post your thoughts, ideas, and convictions (that is what we are all here for anyway right)? However, know this. Some people in this world have already traveled down the hard road of questioning. We’ve held our faith up to the light and inspected it for defects, errors, and shortcomings. While we found several in ourselves, we have found none in what we believe. That does not make us super-spiritual, it does not make us truth-quitters, and it does not make us any better than someone who is still on that journey or has never begun it. What it does make us is men and women who know undoubtedly what we believe and will back down to no one or nothing in response to criticism.
Something tells me you guys are seriously intrigued, angered, or just need a good laugh because you keep coming back to this site. So now’s your chance, copy some of this text, post it, and begin your debate… as long as we can keep it God-honoring I’m not going anywhere.
THIS POST IS SO AWESOME!
Do you question the Faith of everyone or just those people who don't share the same opinions as you do concerning raising a family?
Why don't I have a blog? Been there, done that. I didn't have time to continue it because I had to take my kids to basketball and gymnastics.
Why am I anonymous? I'm not. Lumbearstang is a nickname like Bubba (although the way SMU plays, I like "stank" better, but not now that we have June Jones--Fire Up Mustangs). I thought we'd already been through this. If I were anonymous, I'd of clicked on "anonymous" when I posted.
Why must I "hover" over your blog? I'm sorry my visits were not better appreciated. I'm sorry your "Uncalled-for rant" did not run unopposed. This will be the last time. I'll add "not coming here" to my "Lent" list, right up beside the "no caffeine" part.
Do I question the Bible? I wonder what we have lost to translation in the last 2000 years (after all, it seems like human nature to rewrite history every "regime" change). You know, like the 6 days part, which even Mr. Conn has a "theory" to explain why it doesn't match up with the geologic record.
However, I believe that Jesus is who he said he was, is the greatest man to ever walk this planet, is wonderful, is the Messiah, was perfect without sin, still is perfect without sin, was the Son of God, did die on the cross for my sins, and rose again 3 days later defying all the rules/laws of science and medicine. If that's not good enough for this little sindicate (sic) you got going here, then maybe "THIS POST IS SO AWESOME" will do.
Am I anti-religion? I'll offer some more words for you to "judge" the answer to that question. I have to now re-read my notes so that I can teach my 5-6th grade Sunday School class. Such eager minds ready to learn about the providence of God. Then, I have to go to the nursery and take care of the babies and toddlers during the service. Do I need to sing in the choir to be pro-religion enough for Mr. Conn? Before you answer, realize this would not be good for our choir for me to sing.
Preach on Lumbear"STANK". I was kidding folks.
I do have a blog that I add something to when I can. About once or twice a week.
In an effort to help reach the big "50", I will also finish here as well. It seems as though my visits, as well as that of Lumbear"Stank's", were not very welcomed. I hope all of your visitors to your respective churches feel more at home today.
Does anyone realize what it is like to be "Broken"? Have you actually been broken? Have you crawled up from a back ally somewhere to find yourself stinking, nasty and in dire need of a bath? Not really caring if you lived till next week or not? I would venture to guess it would be hard to reach someone like that on a blog. Do you lock the door when you see someone like this coming? Why am I asking this you may say.
Until you have lived it, well....
I am not looking for any sympathy, or anything like that. I am looking for those who weren't fed with "Gold" spoons when they were growing up. I obviously came to the wrong place. To tell me that your family did not meet expectations of what a Christian family should meet while you were growing up really breaks my heart.(Sarcasm there)
You ate didn't you? You had clothes to wear didn't you? You had an upper class roof over your heads didn't you? I figure the average cost of your parent's homes to be in the $200K class if were a betting man.
So to come here and complain that family time as you were growing up was not "As Christian" as you would have liked it to be, or to complain about the families who drop everything for the children to possibly have an experience of one kind or another, well, it bothers me. There. I said it.
Go live in the ditch for a week. Watch your family fall apart at the seams. Then come back here and tell me how hard it was to sit at your computer and write on a blog to a couple of Christian men who only sought out a little light hearted conversation.
Here is another shocker. I work for a large baptist church. I work in the neighborhood of 55 to 60 hours a week. I get paid for fourty. My wife and children get to see me every now and then. I am not complaining about it though. The bills are paid. I can eat. I have clothes and the ability to take a shower every day. I DO NOT take it for granted.
I pray now that you all have great lives and that God will bless each of you abundantly.
exactly... That is what we're after. Its a shame it took us this long to get there. I want each of you to know that your comments WERE/ARE welcomed. I believe I stated that already. However simply because I will not back down from my beliefs does not make me intolerant of yours. You commented, I commented back. Since when does that mean we have to see eye to eye? I believe in impasses and it appears we have one. If you question the Bible that much then study it for yourself. Learn the original languages and judge for yourself what errors have been made. Because after all the Bible was not written by King James or Zondervan, or even the SBC.
I'm sorry oldfart but I see a major problem with your family getting to see you 'every now and then.' Now you may have just been kidding or being sarcastic but if you are a brother in Christ (which you say you are) then I have a duty as a brother in Christ to encourage you to think about that. It does not matter if you work for Billy Graham or the Pope, no service is worth neglecting your family (again I'm not saying that you are neglecting your family, I'm just saying that I have met plenty of men who pursue their own will at the expense of their wives' will and blame it on God's will.
I'm ok with you not agreeing with me... You have not convinced me that you are ok with me not agreeing with you yet.
P.S. Oldfart, you're right some people have to crawl through Hell and back before their life turns around. But I wonder, who gets to rank how much Hell is good enough? Who gets to quantify if my "Hell" was as bad as your "Hell?"
Lumbearstang,
I do not believe that Robert wanted this blog to run unopposed. Now im sure that while typing this blog he had no idea the number of comments he would get or the types of people that would comment. Thats the thing about a public blog is that you open yourself up to a large amount of criticism. Anybody can read it and if the composer of the blog so chooses, anybody and comment. Robert has left his blog open for comments. I dont not believe that your opinion has been unappreciated at all.
"oldfart",
Yes living in an ally and not knowing where your next meal will come from is a incredibly hard place to be. But so is having 3 of your children die before they even have a chance to open their eyes up to see the world. So is losing someone that you love. Just because the people commenting on this blog have not lived under a bridge and not eaten for days does not mean they have not been broken. There are people that could have anything they wanted (material wise) but are broken because they cant ever have the love of their own child or they cant have the love of a person that they have loved so willingly. Who ultimately has the right to say the man living in the ally has it worse than the man who has lost his child?
To everyone,
This conversation is comparable to a formal debate. In debate there are winners and losers. Not because person A convinced person B that their way was correct but because person A did a better job at convincing the judges (or audience) that their opinion was better based on their knowledge of the subject and its background. In this case it might be possible for A to change Bs opinion but im guessing that thats not likely based on this:
I know Robert, Bobby, and Todd well enough to say that they are so deeply rooted in Christ and His Word that people who disagree with them are probably not going to be able to even pick a leaf off their tree much less pull their roots out. I think it is safe to say that the same goes for Ross.
Lumbearstang and oldfart seem like there is no way they are going to change their mind. They are firm in their argument and have not backed down which is admirable in both sides. Each person commenting has established their ground and has yet to take a step off of it.
So i believe that this conversation could continue as long as both parties are willing to listen to the other ones view and accept that its not the same as theirs. Obviously there is a difference in opinion which can cause (or has caused) argument. The sarcasm and snide comments are just a hindrance to having an effective two-sided conversation. Shouldn’t the goal of a conversation be to get to know the other person and their view rather than convince them that they are wrong? If we, as Christians, had everyday conversations with people and constantly tried to convince them that they were wrong or their opinions were inferior to that of our own I would say that we would turn people away from Christ's love.
My opinion is this:
I have worked with children long enough to see several types of families. I have seen the ones that go, go, go, I have seen the ones that leave their children at daycare for 12 hours, take them home and put them to bed, I have seen parents that meet at the daycare everyday to pick up their children together and greet them as if they have been apart for days. My heart breaks for the kids that spend very little time with their parents. The kids that would rather go home with me, a single college student, because I spend more time with them than their own parents do. Parents are the most influential people in a child’s life and when a child does not have that time with the family they look for it other places. Starting out in their teachers but soon it will move to their peers. One day God might bless me with a great husband and then with wonderful children who I want to be involved in sports, piano, dance and such, but over my dead body will those kids spend more time away from me than with me for the first 18 years of their life. If God does bless me with children it means that He leaving me and my husband responsible for a life of a person. If you do not know how influential a parent is on a child as they are growing and maturing I would be more than happy to loan you my child development book or tell you when my class is so that you can learn the scientific facts that have been tested and proven.
Having read this "dialogue" after the fact, let me just say that you would think this is American culture/politics with people looking for a reason (lumbearstang, oldfart) to be offended. Goodness gracious, people. I thought I had tuned in to a LULAC-NAACP-Middle-Class White Male-MADD-Young Republican, Young Democrat-disenfranchised Floridian voter-tree hugging march on the capitol. Smile folks. My take is that each "dialoguer" here is a Christian, we're gonna each do the best we can raising our kids, hopefully have the boldness to reach out and evangelize where opportunity exists, and not castigate, but uplift, the potential evangelizers for having said boldness, not being offended by the hopefully unneeded evangelism.
And I agree with you, Todd.
THIS POST IS SO AWESOME!
Finally, somebody giving me the love.
Isn't that what all blogs are supposed to do? Agree with me and tell me how awesome I am?
No? What? Are you - this can't -
Gotta go.
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